Energy Management Lesson 2
by DeadDuck

Note from Hammer: This is the transcript from an on-line training session for Air Warrior. The performance characteristics discussed for a plane might be different from the plane's performance in Aces High, but the principles of e-fighting still apply.

Hocuspocus: Before we get to what I had planned to discuss FIRST: Bummer asked about 109 last time and I didn't give an answer I was happy with. I thought about it and I have a better answer. E fighting is maximizing your options so the way to E fight a 109 is to use its strengths. If you want to fly the 109 and use its strengths there are two things that the 109 is best at. Between 8-12k it is actually the best turning ETO plane so it behooves you to do turning IN THAT ALT RANGE An example of what I think of as E fighting would be using the 109s climb to keep the fight in the band where the 109 uses its energy the best. Another thing that 109 is good at, tho it rarely matters in 870, is HIGH alt fighting. At 35K+ the only thing that can match it is the Dweebcat. My memories are of KurskII when I discovered a Ki will NOT go higher than 37K. PERIOD Damn FWz and 109s were laughing at me 39K. Other thing is a result of me dueling Shadow here earlier. This isn't really about E fighting, but learning in general. If you fly in AW you MUST remeber that what you see is not necessarily what the other guy sees! This makes many tactics and theories problematic. Shadow killed me twice both times I thought I was about to shoot him down. Anytime you are "sure" that somebody couldn't have killed you you're probably right. He just wasn't playin same game. It's part of the game, and you can't let it discourage you.

OK. Advanced E fighting (DD teaching E fighting <giggle>) I have 3 scenarios to start with and a trick of Killers and we'll go there.

Hotrail: was this the mouse flying Shadow Boulder? done?

Hocuspocus: No this was the shadow here 

Shadownyc: I fly with mouse, NYC (not my handle)

Hocuspocus: though he IS an Amiga dweeb 

Hotrail: what's an Amiga? 

Shadownyc: go on with the class 

Hocuspocus: I don't know but there are only 3 left so be gentle. First setup is suppose that you are totling along spoiling for a fight in say a P38. Along comes a HIGH 51 (something faster anyway). Now you could do what I mentioned before and start climbing under him forcing him to dive straight down, but then if it's Grok, he'll run. So what do you do to EQUALIZE E states? Try to get away <eg>. AFTER he notices you when he dives for you 6 start to dive away also. In a 38 you can wind up to 375 quick in a relatively shallow dive and if you time it right you'll be in a situation where he is trailing you by 2-3K coalt with only a slight E edge. The you do an Immelman and engage. The idea is to draw him down and make him blow alt in a tail chase. Assumptions are: You are in more agile plane and WANT to come to grips. And he has a faster plane and superior E. Questions?

Porn: Why sacrifice your E with an Immelman? Why not split S?

Hocuspocus: Oh, good question. Assumption is you want to force him to fight and Immelman will convert you speed to alt and set you up for a lead turn and if he wants to run you can drive him down to the deck. If you go low he can unload and bug.

Shadownyc: I sometimes do an Immelman after the drag you described, but if he's far enough back I perform a flat turn (slightly nose down) to come at him head-on comments?

Hocuspocus: OK. That's the next move I was gonna talk about. The difference is that in what you are describing you are trying to maintain speed (nose down) against a plane that is faster in the first place and is essentially defensive. What happens is that the 51 in this case can just go vertical and get above you or unload and bug. The Immelman forces the 51 to dive or engage. That of course means he might shoot you down. Like I said the idea is to FORCE him to fight and since a 38 zooms WAY better than 51 (applies to Spit and 109 too) the thing to do is go vertical while denying the shot. The 51 has blown E in tail chase and now YOU have E advantage. OK, next variation: Lets say you have the same situation. Fast high enemy, you lower in turn fighter. Now, if you are dealing with someone who is AGGRESSIVE you can you usually do a judo throw on 'em. You start out the same way with a run but when you let 'em get a little closer like they are ALMOST in range ( and they get hot flashes ) start a break BUT you chop throttle a little and start a nose low turn pull just enough Gs to keep his guns off you. If he is greedy enough, he'll follow you in your break and you can draw him into a tighter and tighter turn that nose down while denying him the shot. What will happen is at some point he won't be able to stay with you and will have to break off. Having bled most of his E in a turn AND being nose down so he is forced to recover below you.

Bummer: I am a little worried about turning like that because

Hocuspocus: One sec Bummer u next . Whip?

Whipster: OK. What if higher target made a fake pass came over top you didn't see it soon enough you be dead. I kill guys in my FW like that all the time.

Hocuspocus: Rgr. OK. Now, if you screw up you die that's a given 

Whipster: if I see this but a little late if in the turn fiter what do I do???

Hocuspocus: The way we start of this is with the low bogie making a run so 51 going vert means he breaking off. OK, on being low guy. What Whip is describing btw is a high yo-yo. What you do if 51 gets smart and goes vertical is unload and make him start over chasing you damn was all that readable?

Whipster: explain unload please??

Shadownyc: pants or plane, whip? 

Hocuspocus: Anytime an enemy does a high yo-yo they are going too fast. Unload=stop pulling Gs and try to max speed.

Whipster: ahhh what makes you think that???? Just cause he dove on ya????

Hocuspocus: ...and are using the high yo-yo to stay INSIDE turn what a yo-yo does is allow you to change your vector in the vertical by rolling rather than pulling Gs and then come down using new vector. Downside is that yo-yo take more time. Time in proportion to excess speed. OK, Whip a slower plane doing a yoyo=suicide . called hanging out to dry 

Bummer: I was wondering about the break turn that started this one. I have been having trouble lately with getting killed in what used to be a good break turn by 1) wonderful 90 degree deflection shooting,or 2) the lag has them with a better angle on me than I thought. Your thoughts on break turns? ga

Hocuspocus: <sigh> OK, no good answer to that one Bummer. Fact is that gunnery is royally porked in AW right now IMO and the host is starting to do some weird stuff. BBs protestation to the contrary, I think we have some problems that are going to get worse before they get better. On the break turn. Basically at speed all planes turn the same since the idea of a break turn is to get AWAY enemy guns. (and in this example make em do something stupid) You have to turn BETTER than the enemy. This is where the the "judo" comes in. By going nose low AND chopping throttle you are slowing down and decreasing your turn radius while making it look like you are speeding up (nose low) the trailer, unless he reacts IMMEDIATLY will accelerate in turn when he follows you and find his radius increasing OR hw will black out. Either way you can take advantage. The idea is to use his speed against him. If you keep your speed up in a break you are inviting the trailer to chop throttle and cut inside YOUR turn.

OK next setup is again based on same premise of a high/fast vs a lower/nimbler. Think how nice it would be if you could just subtract 3000 yards where you are if you have an enemy 2400 back? Welllllll I do this mainly when I'm in fast planes myself like a FW or Ki. I'll do the running extend bit to draw the enemy down, BUT I'll do what appears to be a purely defensive move when he gets in range namely a split-S or I'll start one anyway. I believe this is called a lag-lead roll. I will roll inverted and put my nose straight down and then I roll 90 degrees and start to pull up watching the enemy the whole time. When it looks like he is extending (or doesn't have a shot anyway) I roll another 90 degrees and pull up going on my original course BEHIND the enemy and with a good bit of speed if I haven't jerked the the stick around.Questions? Shadownyc: does it work?

Hocuspocus: If you time it right it does. It's hard.

Hotrail: ok sounds interesting

Hocuspocus: BUT .

Hotrail: how much do you pull up on the first and secound 90 degree turns?

Hocuspocus: Ahhh, here we talking art the first nose down is the break after that I don't actually break it down into 2 90 degree turns.

Hotrail: or rolls. I'm sorry.

Hocuspocus: I start rolling back and curving onto my original course while watching the enemy in rearview. It DOES work and I've gotten Whip with it before BUT you have to time it JUST right or he's out of gun range.

Hotrail: what kind of alt is needed for this?

Hocuspocus: hehe, alt depends on speed but you need enough that you aren't afraid of ground while you tracking enemy plane.

Hotrail: never afraid of the ground I know it well. thanks done

Hocuspocus: It's called a lag-lead turn and it works about like a lead turn.

Iron Hammer: what happens if they chop throttle and keep following you?

Hocuspocus: Ahhh, OK, IH. Then, my friend, you have a fight on your hands. Generally tho you do a lag-lead if the enemy has a speed edge on you and given that he is fast they rarely follow a plane into split_s. Their natural move is to go vertical and setup for next pass. You NEVER do this against a plane with speed bakes or and e bleeder like Ki or YAK.

Whipster: OK, I've seen what you're talkin about before. What if I see you're nose down dive and pull up and disengage This will make you do your little 90 U seeing the seperation and what not. Meanwhile I got my canopy on ya I see your little 90, say, off to my right .

Hocuspocus: ok hold up

Whipster: holdin

Hocuspocus: Wish I could wave my hands around on this one. First of all, I start this when you're CLOSE like almost guns on...

Whipster: well instead of me makin up a little scenerio

Hocuspocus: ...and I HAVE to track you the whole time

Whipster: ahhhh bad move I'll kill ya

Hocuspocus: If you start to pull up when I commence split_s...

Whipster: if ya wait that long

Hocuspocus: ...I roll back immediately and follow you up. It's a judgment Whip. I'd start when I'm showing 2K and your probably seeing 900-1200.

Whipster: unless ur going real fast and get real lucky you will not get a shot.

Hocuspocus: Nope, remeber I'm going slower so I can turn sharper. Hehe IH whispered "Risky but I like it" <g>

Whipster: I would be diving on you right??

Hocuspocus: And he is RIGHT! It is risky, but sometimes unexpected .

Whipster: VERY RISKY but ur right if done right and higher plane not too smart ok nuff said by me Ga

Hocuspocus: Thing is, Whip, if trail plane makes NO mistakes then you can't win 

Bummer: On the "roll back immediately and follow him up" part do you mean, rolling back inverted before committing to the split-s or pulling on through the split-s and going up? ga

Hocuspocus: The former. What you are doing is FAKING a split-s not doing one. The hardest maneuver for a fast aggresor to follow is a split-s so they learn that the counter is to extend and zoom for another pass.

Whipster: sorta like fakin a break and coming back on his six eh??

Hocuspocus: Exactly that Whip. The timing part is when do you come back. The whole key to all of these maneuvers is that it is possible to USE differences in E state to "throw" a high E attacker off .

Whipster (whispered): Whats this conf. supposed to be about, Shebop??

Hocuspocus: Everyone here pretty well knows what to do when YOU have the E. Where we all have problems and where you can learn a LOT is fighting at a disadvantage. Next time one of you jumps my 38 and sees me diving you are NOT gonna be typing about runners <eg>. You are going to be watching closely! And maybe I'll fake you out. Remeber this: whole discussion is the point of view of the underdog so you will die trying this stuff. I get plucked LOTS cept in scenarios and warnight. I fly for real there. If you are looking for a PURE defensive move, a split-s is usually the way to go vs high E enemies and if you time it right and enemy is VERY greedy you can auger em specially Spits. Spits can't slow down for ANYTHING get em to follow you in low split-s and they fricasee themselves. OK, here is a trick that Killer pulled on me a LOT and I will confess that I can't do it well. It takes timing and patience. I have the timing. He does it in a FW, but it should work in a Yak or any E bleeder at a turning disadvantage. What Killer would do when I chased him in a 38 (Killer in FW) is he would start to zoom like he was looping pulling enough Gs that I couldnt get my guns on him till he started slowing to the point where he couldnt maintain Gs (point hwere I usually kill FWz). Then he would snap roll 180 and do a split-s building speed as he went down and doing a gentle pull out at the bottom. I would follow and as I got near shooting again he would start the zoom again. What happens is after 2 or 3 of these zooms and split-s's he actually would pull me into rolling scissors going straight down! And with the FWz roll rate, I died. Reason this worked, well 2 reasons. First reason is that the FW BLEEDS E when its pulling Gs Killer used that to make me overshoot and have to pull around to line him up as he kept rolling. Second reason involves what I wasn't doing. And when I STARTED doing this Killer started to die to my 38 anyway. Any guesses what it was I was doing? errr wasn't doing

Robinhood: riding the brakes?

Porn: target fixation

Hocuspocus: Hehe right answer. It's the brakes. A Spit is helpless vs that manuver but a 38 can stop on the brakes and prevent and overshoot. Thats when I first started using brakes.

Iron Hammer: any films of that move being done your view?

Hocuspocus: Hmmmmmm. I don't think mine, but I'm sure Killer has. The other side. I rarely film. I get excited and forget. Another piece of advice this kind of talking moves out helps if you don't do it already (like at work spend time mentally flying a plane. I don't mean fantasizing about killing 10 spits in one pass. I mean doing a slow visualization of what you are doing and what the bogey is doing. Like when you wave your hands around explaining something. Putting words and images to concept makes the more real. err them more real.

Whipster: cc good advice 

Hocuspocus: thxs

Hotrail: My hands fly alot better than I do 

Bummer: DD, do you ever use HiTech's flight program to view proposed (or real) maneuvers?

Hocuspocus: Ahh, answer to that is yes and no. I reached a stage right when Vfilm came out where I was REAL serious about flying. About the only 2 people that could kill me 1 on1 where Killer and HT and what crystalized a LOT of that was Vfilm. I knew what I wanted, and I knew I did stuff that WORKED but I didn't know what it was I did.

Whipster: guess I should get this vfilm thingy

Hocuspocus: Vfilm showed me what I was doing that's where I first saw a lag-lead when I did it. I don't use it anymore NOW cause I got to a point where I KNOW but I recomend it.

Bummer: I have heard it's hard to use. True? False? (I have only seen it at the AW con in Houston 2 times ago.

Hocuspocus: Rgr. I say its not HARD but it is a PAIN

Whipster: I had it once but could never get a hold of Hitech to register it :(

Hocuspocus: The film editor part is screwed imo. If you use Windows a lot it should be no biggy. In my case thats

ALL I use windows for so that's why I rarely use it 

Hocuspocus: HT is an awesome programmer and he loses interest at 95% complete 

Whipster: Good Idea DD. I get kills a lot and really don't know what I did to get them.

Hocuspocus: right Vfilm will help you.

Whipster: and really can't see anything with the awfe film viewer ga.

Hocuspocus: that stage and the stage where you aren't sure what the OTHER guy did...

Whipster: + I don't read anything about plane tactics and maneuvers

Hocuspocus: ...are where Vfilm will help LOTS. Neither do I. Had to ask on boards what a lag-lead was. I described it and they named it.

Any intrest in E state vis a vis pairs flying?

Whipster: wasn't sure what ya meant by yo yo earlier hehe

Bummer: Yes to the pairs thing

Hocuspocus: Ahh, better still should we discuss what various maneuvers are? OK, let me real quickdefine yo-yo visualize a plane in a flat tight turn...

Iron Hammer: heh what's a rolling scissors <g>

Hocuspocus: ...you come in on its 6 in an attack run going faster than it is. It's turning too hard for you to follow it so you pull UP roll TOWARDS the enemy aiming ACROSS the circle of his turn and push over. THAT is a high yo-yo. EVERY one of you has done one. Guaranteed chilens [silence?]. It's the ONLY way to do that maneuver

. Cld: It's a cross between a loop and a flat turn .

Hocuspocus: What Cld said rolling scissors. Imagine that you and the guy you want to kill are flying side by side doing the SAME speed. YOU do a barrel roll to move sideways and get behind him and HE does the same thing. Viola, rolling scissors and he that stops first or loses flight controls, dies Any others?

Bummer: hammerhead stall

Hocuspocus: <shoots bummer> When we CAN do one I'll describe it.

Bummer: <bleeds>

Hocuspocus: I pray for the day too cause it means TORQUE.

Whipster: Yah nothing like the feeling of a hammerstall.

Hocuspocus: Anyone here knows what torque means??? <eg>

Cld: he said the T word

Iron Hammer: Where's that tactics book gone

Porn: You kidding. I fly copters in the army.

Bummer: I have a wrench like that

Whipster: me too Bummer

Hocuspocus: I give hint 38 has NO TORQUE <BSEG>

Cld: radials will suffer

Hocuspocus: Gonna be a LOT of dead single engine planes come the day 

Whipster: but they'll never ever model it right

Hocuspocus: Ok a quick synopsis of pairs

Iron Hammer: Well I'm reading on torque and I still don't get it <g>

Hocuspocus: 11:00 OK, I make this quick Wolfie and I (and we're pretty good pairs) fly in TWO modes. If we are in the SAME type of plane... Whipster: Heh yahg kill and die. Sorry.

Hocuspocus: ....hehe we try to maintain similiar E states. The reason is that we work as a PAIR

Cld: kind of like follow the leader?

Hocuspocus: not really we fly shooter/shooter not shooter/cover Vox 

Whipster: helps

Hocuspocus: What it means is we cover each other. If one of us is fast, that one tends to be fighting a different fights than the slow one. To peel enemies of tails you need to be close to same speed. We also fly CLOSE 3K is big separation for us. That's when we are facing furballs and such or dueling. If we are HUNTING we like a Ki/F6F combo Ki at 20-25K and F6F at 35K F6F (me) covers Ki(WM) while he forces runners to engage. Above 25K the Ki is a total brick which is why the F6F is high cover.

Whipster: ki good bait 

Hocuspocus: This is a very aggresive combo, cause the pair can't really fight together. They can force fights, but not coordinate well cause of different strengths and critical speeds. Questions?

Bummer: Then doing the welded wing thing how do you stay close? and do you both dive together on a target?

Hocuspocus: We coordinate by phone, BUT we fly that way without too. The trick is lead plane flys and looks, trailer just watches and follows lead plane. When we engage, lead plane picks target, trailer attacks whatever lead tries to attack. Then we try to pull the ones on our tail past each other so we can take out the parasites on the other. If you D/L the film of the 2v2 final you can see WM and I do that in first duel. He was on HT and I on Killer and we crossed over and switched targets.

Maker: where is that film?

Hocuspocus:. In GEnie libs for sure. They both short films. Wolfie and I were on a roll. Time to call it quits I yawning

Bummer: Btw the film (here) F4U2.cam is captioned film by Killer. Very good (since he's been mentioned here a lot tonite)

Hocuspocus: Thxs to all of you. I'm flattered