Guns Defense: Shaking Charlie from your Six
by Worr

This is a transcript from the Guns Defense Lecture held by Worr, on the ICI BBS Wednesday July 31, 1996. It has been edited from its original version for readablity.  I would like to thank Worr and the ICI Warbirds training staff for their excellent lectures.

From Worr: Tonight's lecture is GUNS DEFENSE: Shaking Charlie from your Six

From Worr: It matters not how sharp your SA, how good your gunnery, how fast your kills, nor how reliable your buddies, sooner or latter you'll find yourself in a jam. How do you shake Charlie from your six? Is there a way to reverse your misfortunes? Yes...but not with out Guns Defensive skills. Guns defense is exactly that.....seeking a way to defeat an opponent's gun solution upon you. He may have a tracking shot. He may have a snap shot. But you don't want him to hit you, nor stay in his advantaged position for long. Tonight's lecture covers four chapters. They are as following:

I) Basic things to look for

II) Classic escape maneuvers

III) Forcing the over shoot

IV) Specific defensive tips for specific AC.

After each chapter I'll open it up for questions and comments. Just type a ! and I'll get to you asap.

I) Basic Things to Look for

If you are really serious about living and landing after your sorties. Ask yourself three questions. Did I leave a back door open--a way of escape? Do I know exactly what I'm up against? And lastly, am I really ready to go over to the defensive? When I say the back door I do mean an escape hatch. Three things you should constantly be aware of. Your altitude, your odds both in terms of numbers and quality of pilots, and your position in respect to the enemy's active bases, and your own place of free pilots. If you are constantly diving down to the deck with a blood trail of energy left on the soil, and you do this near the enemy's base and with no support about you chances are you going to die. You remember the movie: "Night of the Living Dead"? Well its like running to the cemetery to fight your defense there. Its a losing battle. If you drop alt for a kill, climb away from the enema when you recover. When your buddies are dropping like flies....leave that last kill for another time. Discretion is the better part of valor. Second. Not only know if you left the back door open, but know what you are up against. If you are going one against three and you engage one first, take note of the other A/C type, and their energy state. Are they zooming into the fight from level alt, climbing to you, or dropping from a distance yet above? Then when you have gotten your first kill you know what you are up against. It doesn't hurt to know who the pilots are in that sector too. Doesn't matter if he is in a P-39. If its the Red Baron treat that A/C with respect. : ) Lastly, and most importantly know when to go over to the defensive. This is so simple, yet so important. Very important. Personally I kill more A/C because they are still turning aggressively into me, as in to reverse their position, or get guns on me. Aggression is good, and can surprise a few folks in a rhubarb. But know when its time to start thinking guns defense. Just because Mr. Bogie is in your forward up view, or even your up view, doesn't mean you are gaining. Many of the loops and circles you find yourself in are deceptive. They are more elliptical, ie egg shaped, then smooth. Be careful out there. Next I want to move into some classic escape maneuvers....but first are there any questions or comments? Use a !

From Lephturn: Ok, I guess my biggest problem is knowing when to go defensive. If in doubt of enemy's E state, run like hell?

From Worr: Gun tracers are one que

From Lephturn: Hahaha, good point. Although sometimes I keep trying anyway. Then I die.

From Worr: The key of course is SA. Also notice in your views the nose aspect of the enemy. If you him it in your forward up view yet his nose is at you 20 degrees away beware I go guns defense when I know I just blew my E on another kill I just assume he has the advantage on me

From Lephturn: I guess bottom line is SA and ability to judge E states.

From Worr: that is safest

From Sable: just wanted to mention, that tracers can be very deceptive ... if you rely on them too much you can wind up jumping the gun on defense sometimes tracers are used to get you to break or sometimes you might not see them .... sorry, lagging ... done

From JJ Flash: You mean u go defensive if you think he has the advantage?

From Worr: Yes

From JJ Flash: ok sorry... you go defensive if you miss your first shot?

From Worr: If I miss my first shot I'm looking to retain my advantage not go defensive The way to loose that advantage is to press a poor gun solution and blow e needlessly Typical Guns Defensive scenario is: Boggies dropping from above, you just got a kill and you have a con on your six You are co alt, but just got there from a steep climb etc

From JJ Flash: cc that happens a lot due to several factors

From Worr: cc

From Dirt: how big of a factor is net lag? f i see bogie on opposite end of a turning fight ... do i assume he has the advantage and go defensive?

From Worr: Count two one thousands : )

From Worr: If you are turning at the same rates, but at 90 degrees to your target you are in a stalemate and dead meat for new boggies dropping in but lag is not a factor is a flat circle or loop It is in a merge however...and rear views, ie the #s are off by about range 3 remember: "Objects in mirror are closer than they appear"

From JJ Flash: ok What gets me is I don't plan very well if I over shoot victim then discover I've blown E and now I'm defensive

From Worr: That's just what I want to happen in Guns Defense. We'll come to some of that latter jj

From Fast: if you wait for what shaw says, to begin your jinking ie bogie pulling lead, looking at underside of his plane, you will die before you ever see that in WB. your opponent in WB has about 5-10 deg more turn than you see

From Worr: When you first hear a ping he shot it two seconds ago. I brought this up in the gunnery lecture

From Fast: exactly. so you must be afraid before the "picture" shaw talks about

From Worr: You need to fire when you really do have a shot and not before to keep the element of surprise. Some pilots just don't go guns defense until they hear that first ping. You can use this against them.

From Roscoe: When you say distance off by range 3 in merge, you mean actual distance is less than indicated or more?

From Worr: not in the merge, in rear view

From Worr: Chapter II: Classic Escape Maneuvers

I'll discuss three, though there are more Defensive Spiral; Split-ess; Flick and Flee You have a boggie locked onto your six. He has a gun solution, a tracking shot and he has smash. That is more energy than you. As in Judo you can use your enema's own strength to your advantage. The key to the defensive spiral is to "sucker" your opponent down. Your turns are nose down with some rudder into the turn soon you should gain enough e from the dive to begin blacking out the screen, you will want to force your opponent to over shoot so you will extend flaps, and even chop throttle. Its very difficult to keep sight in this move...but you need to know when terra firma is approaching and if your opponent has pasted you or has stopped pursuit. A smart boggie will pull up and wait for you to finish, a sucker will follow you down and pull up in front of you to give you a snap shot Then you have two options, go for the snap shot or duck to his blind spot and extend This move may also have the good fortune of dragging your advantage enemy down into a mess of friends. : )

Split-ess. It still amazes me how many targets nose up for me and let me kill them so quickly. You drop on them and they go for the straight up immelman, and you blast them as they get big and fat and slow I almost feel bad taking these kills... almost.................. : ) If you have someone dropping on you do your turns nose down, keep your speed up, at or above your corner speed. Split-ess should be timed so as to be executed in the enema's blind spot....don't hit it too soon or his mark I eye ball will see your escape route too late and well...you get the picture A split-ess does not have to end in a 180 degree turnabout btw roll inverted pull vertical down extend down down down roll home and pull preferable roll to his blind side..say he goes into a yo yo...roll into the dark side of his turn.

The third classic escape is the flick and flee. You want him to burn some extra E. sometimes a less skilled pilot will oblige you without your needing to trick him. I see lots of pilots drop from the sky miss their first shot and immediately nose down and turn with me and thus blowing all their e and making huge turns because of their great speed. It really makes for a mess BOOM A flick and flee is the classic move of the FW-190 Boggie drives at your six...you pull up Boggie begins to salivate, you flick your A/C over in a rudder assisted roll, he tries to follow dropping flaps FW does this once more and you are co alt, co E and he is bye bye. Drain the E and Blow town. You may have Charlie on your six but now you can juke your way home. Do not be predictable in your jukes or even your flicks. I like to roll right rudder left; roll left rudder right; and then change the cycles back and forth to keep him from predicting and leading my path with a good speed A/C you can make your way to friends quickly. Comments or questions on Chapter II: Classic Escape Maneuvers

From JJ Flash: is flick the flea a modified split - ess

From Worr: no. you actually end up going the same direction

From Ram1: What happens if you don't have altitude for these maneuvers.. bail and die I guess?

From Worr: You turn to Chapter III of our lecture Entitled "Forcing the over shoot"

From Ichi: F & F a barrel roll?

From Worr: barrel will be in the overshoot chapter

From Lephturn: Just a comment on Ram 1 low & slow. You can usually get enough for a low oblique split S. Augers them 1/3 of the time, especially spits

From Worr: You can modify your split-ess with a nose up climb first, then a dive. If you a getting bounced hard by an enema with lots of smash, it works very well

From Lephturn: CC, that s what I do, plus I flap and pull smooth, come out at 20 feet :) Spit go blam, dig a big hole

From Ichi: I'm not clear on meaning of the Flick part.

From Worr: ok flick... nose up and to your left...like you are starting a yo-yo then you smash on the left rudder and roll left as well Some call it a wing over...but that is really a bit more finesse. Boggie pulls hard up to greet your yo yo but sees you flick over and down, you sucker him in and he is bleeding E bad keep the rudder on and you end up on the same path as before there are other ways to bleed his E...even a simple break turn may sucker him in

From JJ Flash: a squirelly barrel roll?

From Worr: hehe love em Let me move on to Chapter III then

Forcing the Over Shoot

OK...you have blown it. You are low and slow, and no energy to you, and you are all alone the back door is closed...there is no way out are four moves I like to reach for: 1) Yea old basic break turn; 2) Over a barrel; 3) Flat scissors; 4) Boom busting...Yea old basic break turn assumes you have some amount on energy, timing is VERY important. The first 90 degrees until your lift vector is finally onto the enema is the most dangerous part. You must get through that first 90 degrees out of gun range And do not, repeat, do not, go nose up Use rudder if you need to keep your nose level...and rudder will speed your roll anyhow I would even suggest ruddering down the nose as you turn into the break. If you hit this too soon you are in a headon solution and he has even more energy than before Too late and your body assumes room temperature. : )

From Lephturn: What range for break turn?

From Worr: range 15. which is range 12

From Worr: BTW......You do not have to maintain a break turn, he will close to range 6/8 as your lift vector is now onto his nose. Once your lift vector is perpendicular to his plane of travel you are safe. Pull and rejoice unless of course, its the gunnery god on your six front quarters at that rate of closure are tough.

From Ram1: what if its a zeke on your 6

From Worr: A zero on the six should make you shudder.

From Ram1: bad huh?

From Worr: There is more to it than just seeing a zeke ram. If he is fast go for it. Still hit it the same. If he is slow....run for your life

From Worr: and bye a copy of "How to win friends and influence people" immediately--you'll need them. :)

From Ram1: thx

From Worr: Questions on ye old basic break turn? Remember lift vector onto boggie outside gun range nose down rudder in Now two options present themselves If he stays in the break turn too long things are going your way His turn radius is much larger than you. He will begin to slide off your six and turn in a larger circle its time to reverse that break turn, push a tish down on the nose to stabilize your roll. Rudder first then roll 180 degrees and hit a scissors move, you will have a quick snap shot for the taking. Make sure you have film in the camera for this one And if he is smart he will pull up as he understands that he has lost the gun solution he will no doubt go for a yo yo and head exactly to where you are going but from the vertical plane he can roll to your new bearing much faster than you can pull to it. That scissors into his yo yo is very effective also because he will lose sight as he first pulls up. Go for it and extend into his blind underside. Next is the Barrel Roll... Charlie closing fast on your six. Nose up some roll left and slam on the right rudder. He will match your roll and vertical move, but not the slide You will bore a hole in the sky...and he will blow right through it with ease. And the best part is you retain most excellent vis through the whole maneuver. He cannot follow it if he has smash best he can do is snap shot if he has rudder pedals, even then he may collide If he stays with you you'll have a nice reversal coming your way. This move is hit well within gun solution range BTW. You are going to take some pings but its for when you are really in a jam. Number three is the flat scissors... Again your enemy has superior energy....(how else do you think he got on your six?) You have no vertical left to maneuver in...as the up vertical is out due to blowing up your target size. : ) You execute a serious of break turns forcing your opponent into your up view with each break. The key is a good 180 roll that is fast and crisp pull back the opposite way and if he takes the bait he is pushing himself ahead of you as your turn radius is sharper. This is even true of ac that are normally inferior in turn rate but because they are slower they still out turn the normally better turning A/C. Speed and energy is more important than A/C type! What helps in the flat scissors is to put some vertical into your move however don't just fly a straight line from side to side in front of your enemy's gun sight, he will smarten up and shoot in the middle and watch you fly into his bullets nose up some and nose down some on each pass. Draco has an excellent www page on this maneuver, if you track it down on the web. Lastly now, boom busting But maybe I should open up for some questions first.

From Lephturn: Ok, you break turn, you come back starting scissors I see the overshoot coming, and pull up ahead of you, overshoot above you Rolled inverted, lag displacement roll

From Worr: define "pull up ahead of you" you mean go vertical?And you sir have just defeated the flat scissors. There is no move to end all moves

From Lephturn: Yep, pull up , hehehe Time it so I pass just over you, and rolled inverted to watch you.

From Worr: the trick is to not hit it too exceptionally good the first few times him to stick around some a watch all these moves are sucker moves and some suckers need coaxing

From Superman: So, the guy goes vert. and watches... He is a pro. What do you do now? Go vert. scissors with him, or something?

From Worr: split ess

From Worr: Ok boom busting... Last of the forcing the overshoot moves Let's say I have a guy dropping from 3k plus with good speed. He is not setting up a tracking shot, but a snap shot. BTW there is a big difference between these two things and it pays to know what you are being set up for Now.....he is barreling in fast from alt That speed will limit both his roll rate and his turning radius. Even if its the mighty speed demon the P-51. you can use this to your advantage. Nose up 20 degrees into your boggie Roll 20 degrees to one side, pull him in for his set up then simply roll your ac 40 degrees the other way and nose level with rudder into a short break turn...I say short for a scissors may be in order here That 51 cannot follow that move

From JJ Flash: man the timing hasta be good

From Worr: Range 15 again . timing is everything to these moves exactly because they are sucker moves You'll die some getting these babies down but they are worth the deaths. As mentioned before...be aware that a faster boggie with alt has less vis than you. He can't look down. So when he does his yo yo or immelman or spiral climb, he has a large portion of his ac facing a direction he can't see into that is where you want to go. Boomers are chess players. They keep their energy high and they head you off by rolling their A/C to the vector you are going while you are pulling the mighty gs to get to that same vector so don't let him know where you are going.... fool em when he isn't looking Its a fun game to play Next chapter is AC defensive tips

From Ichi: You said 20 degrees into your bogey, is he at 6:00 high or 12?

From Worr: 6 high, you turn to your 1 o clock, and lift a bit, not too much for you need the e for the break turn you can actually hit this mover very gently. It takes little to spoil his guns solution. If he inverts to see you then he is not attacking. Never tip your hand too soon

From Dirt: are moves like break turn and the split-ess done with an eye on your E?

From Worr: not really

From Dirt: or should i realize that i'm in deep shit and start yanking on the stick?

From Worr: your heart rate will determine that your interests lie elsewhere life over energy any day

From Lephturn: Guy booms me and misses, as he pulls up he can see me in his rear view unless I go the same direction only down?

From Worr: when he first pulls up he goes blind immediately, then he waits for you to float into his corner rear view because that's the way you were turning when he pulled up

From Lephturn: Ahh, i'm waiting to long, should be breaking right away then, just as he passes.

From Worr: timing.....timing....timing. Trick is to know that you have just beaten his gun solution and then not to relish that victory tooooo long. Time to move on to other things

From Mutt: at what dist do begin the opening move? then the second break?

From Worr: range 15 I want to come through my first 90 degrees of my break turn outside the enemy's gun range. once my lift vector is on him let him close second break is done as soon as you know the game is yours and not later. Can't really teach that one on paper mutt

From Wdwiii: define lift vector plz

From Fast: line out da top of yer head

From Worr: cc fast

From Worr: perpendicular to the enemy, and then closing nose to nose instead of him nose on your tail that is the safety zone

From Worr: IV AC DEFENSIVE TIPS

I classify them as the accelerators, the climbers, the divers, the turners, the rollers. There are some A/C that do accelerate well, such as the FW. If you drive this bird you can flick and flee get your enema to burn some E and run. Get a zero slow and go as they say The climbers are of course the 109 the spit9 and FTD. I include the zero below 6k. However do not mistake a good climber as a bird that can just be cranked vertical to out run your opponent! As you pull up in your climb you are pulling into the boggie on your six You are really closing the distance between you so take gentle climbs, 30 degrees or less. Spiral climbs are good too If you can drag a FW up to alt, say 10k then the tables turn, same with the zero. you are best pulling it up for a fight also know that some A/C zoom climb better than they climb like the 51. The divers are those ac that can take a few chances and dive away. The spit9 and 51 are excellent for this. they can tangle it up and if there is 8k below they can always leave.

From Ender: why F6 not a 'climber'?

From Worr: because the aforementioned ac are superior to it in a climb

From Lephturn: It's a better diver

From Worr: it is

From Sable: F6F is like a slower slightly more maneuverable 51

From Mutt: wouldn t FW be better than spit9 in dive with no compress

From Worr: with WEP yes I feel, all WEPs are not equal in WB it seems

From Lephturn: Spit 9 dives even better than it likely should.

From Worr: it does do well...and it still is a good gun platform in the dive too

From Mutt: FW historically out dove Spits

From Worr: some tactics against the zero are exactly to go into a high speed dive to induce that compression, and defeat it in a turn and burn match

From Wdwiii: Prob I have w/climb is judging enemas e state e can make a climber

From Worr: The turners are obvious....the zero, the spit5 the FTD but do not forget corner velocity and speed

From Worr: The 51 can turn superbly well at speed. Also, when you have a turn and burn ac there is no sense in flying straight. And if you are in a zero kill everyone before you leave Lastly the rollers, such as the FW and the FTD (38) you will want to use that roll to your advantage in guns defense. Take a F6F up on your six into the sky and roll it in a climbing spiral, and watch the F6F flounder : ) its fun to see. The simple point here in this chapter is: "gnothe tou ac". know thy air craft. Know it at different speeds, different loads, and different alts. Here ends the lecture

From Worr: I'll open it up for questions

From Ender: 2Q: one: corner speed: are there charts to figure this out, or

From Worr: CC Leph has a good page period.

From Lephturn: http://fox.nstn.ca/~spconrad/lephturn.html Thanx guys! Lots of good training stuff there.

From Lephturn: Including these lectures.

From Worr: see Robin Hood's page. Mr Ed's charts, in general though keep your ias indicator in the green

From Ender: is does someone have a list, or is experimentation best? (I WICH for a G-meter!)

From Fast: use blackout onset as your G meter

From Worr: cc fast. that is a good rule of thumb

From Wdwiii: if u r pinged blind whats first move?

From Worr: I immediately do something wild and obscene, minus the yelling

From Superman: moon him

From Wdwiii: hehe

From Fast: better an imperfect plan executed violently than a perfect plan executed too late

From Worr: rudder and roll. Do remember, he has been laying amo into for two full seconds, and you are just now hearing it! Hope he was taking a snap shot. Plan your surprise defense for a snap shot and not a tracking shot, because if its the latter you are dead anyhow

From Worr: thanx all for coming tonight. Hope this was helpful