Wingman Tactics Part 1

From Awguest: First, SB and I have been winging together for about a year. The one thing that we've found is that there is no magic to flying wingman tactics. Just following a few basic rules and getting used to your partners style. SB?

From Bohica: agreed.....Another thing is choosing the plane types you're going to be winging with. Specter and I usually use the Spitfire-FW combo. We have a heavy hitter in the FW and the Spit will outfite anything else if flown correctly. I tend to fly the FW in an aggressive manner, so Spec doesn't over extend when we are engaged. Same goes for me, I don't get so far away from the fight that I can't immediately re engage.

From Bohica: Wingman tactics start from the time you first enter the arena. It's basic SA in seeing who's up.... on your side and the enemies side... where they are... where they are going... and what they are trying to accomplish. It's knowing what your partner is doing in a fight and knowing the abilities of the people you're flying with. I can't count the number of times that I've seen "Hoard Warrior", with several people piled on top of one enema plane leaving themselves wide open to counter attack. Specter and I use this against people <g> ga Spec

From Awguest: rgr that! There is some psychology involved here. Not you vs the enemy, that comes later. What I'm referring to is the relationship between you and your wingie. You may casually fly with a buddy every once in a while and do ok, but to effectively fight with a regular wingie you have to discover and be comfortable with the role that you do best in. One problem that I have experienced before linking up with SB is that of deciding who is gonna start out as the leader. It seems like a very small matter, but in the arena, where things happen very fast, if these small decisions aren't finalized before you get up and engage, things are not going to go as well as they should. If both of you are very aggressive and dive after the first enemy, the other guy is left high and dry and you don't have your cover. Personally, I prefer to follow SB's lead so we don't have any weenie waving (can I say that>) contest over who is gonna get the kill. We almost exclusively fly Loose Duece formation so the lead changes as the fight dictates and we really are not in this for the points. Once the decision over who is gonna start with the lead position is over, you get up and follow that guy.

From Petsku: Do you have your own communications worked out?

From Awguest: yes. It is a very simple method actually. We use the familiar in and out. One of us is always checking radar and counters and we are always updating one another regarding the status of the arena. SB will state that he's making a turn to xxx degrees and/or leveling at a certain alt and will tell me where we are headed or that we are gonna check out a certain aircraft. Once we have visualized the enemy, we still check counters and radar and we confirm that we are going to engage or are about to be engaged. He will call in and I will tell him what I am doing to cover him. We almost NEVER go in on the same bearing. I will usually kick out to the left or right and tell him what I am doing. That way he is free to concentrate on the enemy and has a mental picture of where I am ,,and where I'm going to be when merges with the enemy. During this time, I'm also doing a last minute check of radar and counters and I send him a message telling him if we are clear or whether or not we can expect company in the next minute or two.

From Bohica: When Spec and I go in and the enema sees an FW and a Spit, 9 times out of 10 he's gonna turn towards what he sees as the most dangerous target, usually the Spit. By doing that, he uncovers his tail and allows me to saddle up on him. And the same goes if he turns towards me first, Spec gets saddled up and then I take the cover role. It's not who gets the kill on team, it's that the team gets the kill.

From Bummer: Do you two use a separate radio channel, or just the interplane 'com?

From Bohica: we usually tune to a descreet channel. Much easier to spot messages when they are in color.

From Kkraatz: I get the picture that the best combo is a stallfighter/e-fighter. Is this true or is any combo ok?

From Bohica: well.... it depends on the team really. If one of you doesn't fly an e-fighter aggressively, then you may as well be in a stallfiter or e-fiter mode for both of you. That's my opinion. Any comments Spec?

From Awguest: I concur SB

From Maker: While we're on the subject, how do you adjust the above merge tactics in a multi-bogie environment.

From Bohica: hehe, unless we have to, or we're just fooling around.... we try to avoid those ;)

From Awguest: well, Like I mentioned earlier,you will not find SB and I flying at 400yd spacing, line abreast or in trail. We make every effort to present the enemy with two threatening targets coming from two different directions. We are not above running, setting up for the next engagement, and finding one that is a bit more favorable. When we are on a free flag and basically having fun, we do go 2 v 5 or 2 v 8, but we arent' fooling ourselves. We are laughing and planning on coming up and finding these guys with odds a little more even.

From Bohica: in a 2 on 2 situation, we tell one another which plane we are engaging and still keep an eye on our wingie just in case he get's in trouble either of us will unsaddle from the plane we are chasing to shoot, or distract, the enema that is causing the other one trouble.

From Awguest: rgr that, covering your wingie is as or more important than getting that kill. If he dies, chances are good that you will too.....sooner than you would if he were around. We have found that 2 folks winging can kill more than 2X the amount than two singles and can even land them once in a while <g>

From Awguest: now, a little more an tactics. We briefly covered comms during flight and briefly covered the role that each of us play during the merge. As you know...there are NO real hard and fast rules except one: don't leave your wingie with his drawers hanging out or flying alone. For instance, if we are 2 vs 1 and that 1 happens to be another FW, once SB calls in, I may decide to stay high and watch. I let SB know....."High and watchin' call me" and he acknowledges this. I don't leave him and frequently fly right above his fight. This does two things. It allows me to see if he's getting into trouble and keeps me far enuff out of the fight to scan the sky for dots, check counters and radar. I always keep him appraised of what is going on in the world around him.

From Bohica: and makes the other FW nervous as hell ;-)

From Awguest: If a threat is coming our way and If I think that he is doing fine, I may engage the threat, but I radio my intentions first....and get his "cc". Anything to add SB?

From Bohica: on climbout from your airfield, the spit climbs faster than the FW so Spec goes high. The FW goes faster than the Spit so I get out ahead. If there is an oncoming enemy, he will see me first. I've already seen him on radar or spotted his dot. I tell Spec I'm dragging <direction> and when I hit con range, I split-s and dive back under Spec. Many times the enemy is salavating so hard at seeing a low FW, he never sees Spec drop down on his tail and waste him.

From Awguest: yes. Of all the techniques that SB and I use, the drag and bag puts the most food on our table. When one of us calls out Rev, we know that we should set up for the drag and bag. If I see the enemy on his tail, I may yell REV and he "ccs" and does it....we usually call out the directions or, if he has set the enemy up for it, he tells me what he is doing and what direction. The part that SB failed to mention about the scenario mentioned above is that he is doing 350kts. After the split S and when the enemy spit follows me in immelmans he is usually shocked to see the dragger become the bagger and come crawling up his rear end. This thing must remain really fluid. You have to be ready to reverse roles at all times.

From Bummer: Could you describe the "loose deuce" formation?

From Bohica: loose deuce.... we are flying semi-line abreast, about 1500 yds apart. Lead changes happen depending on the situation. We also in fites try to keep with in 3k yds of one another. If we see ourselves getting pulled apart, it may mean we make our next break to the left instead of the right. Goes back to keeping your eye on your wingie.

From Awguest: the LD thing is note really a formation. You don't always have to be line abreast. It is a style.....lead changes depending on the situation. If your wingie is engaged and you see an opportunity to scratch his back and blow away the offending enemy, you maneuver to get into position and try to do just that while never forgetting your other role of watching what may be diving down on you. When you compare that to a "welded wing" formation where you stay glued to your wingies tail no matter what and shoot only at targets that get onto his six, LD allows for a lot more flexibility. Some folks, those that fly voice comms, can do welded wing effectively but if you dont' have vox, I can't seem to make it work...I die

From Bummer: I detect a lot of typing here, and many of the folks I fly with don't type so good. What about that aspect?

From Awguest: I make macros. I have in and out....kicking left...kicking right....and will soon add... dragging [place direction here].....and Ruh Roh. Macros would seem to be the best middle ground if you cant voice link via local calls. Comms are very important, especially when you first start flying with a wingie. SB and I don't say more than three words at a time now: FW east, dots high, kicking left, etc and it seems to work pretty well

From Jedi: what kind of spacing you look for, especially if you must extend?

From Bohica: extending???...hmmmmm.....don't really give it much thought jedi. But on spacing going into a fight, we try to get about 1.5 to 2k sep going in and make the enema turn towards one of us and let's the other one waste him, or them. Can't count the times we went into a 2 on 2 and the other 2 guys both turned the same way, usually towards the Spit and away from the FW.

From Awguest: comment here The distance SB mentioned is true, we don't give it much thought. But we have killed so many folks that were flying line abreast or only 500 yds in trail that is is recognizable by separating like we do, the enemy is forced to commit to one of us, usually to the first one. If he goes for the first one, then 1.5 to 2k is just about right for the second in the winging pair to get a tail shot as the enemy comes off his first immelman. If he decides to pass on the first one and goes for me, SB is already 3/4 of the say through his maneuver and has the same shot. Now we have the enemy in a box. He has to deal with two of us coming at him from two different directions, and this is one of our goals from the onset: divide his attention, make him react to us, make him fight our fight.

From Awguest: comment on extending... Since we both fight a bit aggressively, we don't boom and zoom much at all. Even when SB is flying the FW or the 51, I know that he aint gonna do no 3k extends and leave me hanging so in this situation I do whatever I have to, hell with the E, and try to gain position. If I screw up I _KNOW_ that he will be there to bail me out. So really there is no extend; just stay in fight. I have confidence in him and he in me. The only extension we may do is after out winging engages, we may dump a little alt, get speed up to maneuvering speed and get right back into the fight. One last comment on extending. SB and I have been given MANY kills when another set of guys winging joined the fight. One extended, say to 2k, and we kill his wingie then we focus all our energy on him. Happens all the time. When two work together against us and they work well, it usually boils down to two fights of 1 v 1 with brief respites. Just enuff to glance at your wingie. Sometimes your are so tied up, all you can do is hope for the best. The weakest link determines the battle.

From Bohica: one thing about finding a wingie. When you have some guys you like to fly with, fly againest them as much as you can to find out how they fight. If they are local, do the H2H thing. If not, use the GameConnection here to do your H2H. That way you can play to your teams strengths.

From Awguest: SB and I have spent HOURS flying against each other on the training page. A wingie can spot your weaknesses, kill you <g>, and tell you what you are doing wrong. He can also send you films of what he did and how he out flew you. It has helped me immensely and usually, each of you has his own strengths in a given aircraft. By sharing that, and dueling in all types of planes, you learn lots of secrets that you would otherwise never discover or at least it would cause you much death and suffering to find out.

From Jedi: You mentioned earlier watching from abover to see if winngie in trouble...how do you tell?

From Awguest: what I did many months ago was this…I would go up in the arena and turn on the film when I knew that I would be running onto a furball. I would be above the furball. I would just fly over it, filming and watching the dots go to and fro trying to tell who was doing what and watching the dots disappear as they died. Off-line, I would fire up that 30 minute film, fly RIGHT over the furball at much lower alt and watch the fight. After a while, I was able to tell what the aircraft were doing. Next time I would play the film and actually B&Z the furball on film, always trying to get tail shots on the dots, picking out a target at 2k and trying to merge with him when he was facing away from me. No magic involved. It's just that now I can tell what the dots are doing, especially when they hit icon range.

From Awguest: A very important part of SA, in wing tactics and all others really, is being able to determine your opponents energy state. I just mention this now because you can learn fairly easily to dtermine this E state by watching how fast the icon distance is ticking down as the enemy plane comes toward you or goes away. Why do I mention this??? Well, another tactic that we have used successfully is having one of us cruising at 2k after finishing a fight. Most folks would think that a plane low is probably slow. We may see that we are going to be engaged and don't have a way out so I will dive to 2k or so, 350kts, and head right toward the enemy. If he doesn't see the icon distance really clicking down, he frequently makes a slow lazy lead turn on the low slow spit only to find that he now faces an FW and the spit is 4k above him and coming down hard and he is in trouble.

From Bohica: on climb outs in a sector with enemy counters, I don't climb at less than 200 kts. I can still get 3k fpm roc, but if I am engaged, I've got a lot more options than the enema usually thinks I have.

From Jedi: ok, so the 2 of you plunge into furball, what cutesy moves you use to eat dweebs?

From Bohica: we -don't- plunge into a furball. Mostly I'll take the FW in and rev 3k away from the furball to see what I can drag out of it and drag em back to Spec for dinner ;)

From Awguest: We much prefer to eat at the fringes

From Bohica: if I have a lot of alt I'll overfly the furball to the side away from Spec and dive thru it and see what I can stir up and cut the stragglers out

From Awguest: Someone always gets a woody when they see a FW diving away <g>

From Awguest: We know that we are not AW's gift of Aces, so we try not to be too stupid. Hunting in our radar is a good tactic. It allows us to set up from 16k away if we see one or two targets coming and really gives us an advantage.

From Bohica: I think also we're always thinking how we can set this guy up for the other one to kill

From Jedi: you concentrate on one, or split to attack?

From Bohica: depends on sit Jedi. If we see 2 spits, I'll announce I'm going after a specific one and spec takes the other. If one is way ahead of the other, 4k or so, we try to kill that one first and it makes it so much easier to get the second one.

From Awguest: another thing, when we are doing this 1 v 1 when fighting two planes, if we are fighting in one anothers space, I will take a snapshot on SB's target if my enema does not have a firing solution on me but you have to resist the temptation, even when the opportunity looks good, to saddle up on your wingies target cuz that means that no one is watching yours.

From Bohica: and that extra ping on your target may force a mistake and you can kill him easier and quicker

From Awguest: one more thing to consider download the file Fueltab.zip and match your fuel loads <g>

From Jedi: How bout defensive 2v2, for when in Cland?

From Bohica: in cland we take lots of fuel (unless we're cz that day <g> and we'll wait to set up a shot. Usually we have higher planes coming against us and we still use the separation to force them to go after one or the other. Knowing how and when to break is the key to not getting hit on a B&Z attack. On the 2v2 fites, I know Spec can handle his guy so I just look out for him on occasion and concentrate on my guy. He does the same and when one of us finishes off our opponent, then we pitch in on the other after scanning radar and or counters for possible party crashers.

From Awguest: SA is just as important in this situation. You are in the enemies back yard: strike one against you. You are at an alt disadvantage: strike two. So it is imperative that any maneuver that you make be thought out. If you hamfist the stick and kill your E, you are dead. You have to keep your E up and make a judgement call on whether you want to try to follow the diver into an immelman and if you see that you cant follow him, stop climbing, get your nose down, get speed back up all the while keeping your nose pointed in his general direction.

From Awguest: One tip on flying the Spitfire. If you decide to use it as part of your combination: I started fiddiling with the throttle during fights. The throttle is the key to being successful with the spit in this situation. If you go full throttle all the time, you will black out, your turns and vertical maneuvers will be hellaciously huge. But by cutting back on it, sometimes even while in the vertical, you can cut inside an enemy doing a tight immelman. Used to be afraid to do that, but when you firewall it and get the nose down, the E comes back up really fast.

From Bohica: quick quiz here. A spit is being chased by an FW at 300 kts. They both go into a right hand 5.5 g turn. Who turn's best?

From Bummer: equal From Hotrail: FW From Jedi: Spit will get pinged for sure From Sluggo: FW turns tightest

From Bohica: ok... all the answers are correct. It depends on what part of the turn you look at. At the outset, they both turn the same. The Spit holds E a lot better than the FW. The FW will slow down faster and turn inside the Spit for only a brief period so you better be able to shoot!

From Awguest: one very important suggestion....once you pick your plane combination, take that plane offline and find out what it's limits are. Take it up to 20k, dive with wep, and find out where the wings come off. Take it up to 3k at 200, 150, 100kts split-s's with and without flaps and find out how much alt you lose with throttle full and throttle off. I can guarantee you you will end up in a situation where you will have to know how to push the aircraft to it's limit and it's always good to know what you can get away with....

From Bohica: in a ladder duel with Pyro (one of the finest pilots of AW).., I pulled a P-38 out of a split-s at 10 ft. He couldn't follow me and I ended up killing him, done

From Jedi: 2 hard split-s in a FW will often black out a Spit

From Awguest: rgr Jedi it will

From Bohica: nother thing is try those splits with the throttle off and the Spit will usually really overshoot and end up below you

From Awguest: you have to worry when you see that he has chopped his throttle and is still with you <g>