Wingman Tactics Part 2

From Bohica: Let's suppose that Spec and I went into a 2 on 2 battle. We usually use the FW-Spit combo. We meet up with the same combo to fite against. I'll generally go after the FW if there is no significant differences to consider. If Spec can waste his guy, then the FW gets him. I'll stay in stallfighting the other FW or if I get the FW and the Spit gets me. Spec will stay in and fite the FW but if we screw up and one of us doesn't kill one of the targets before buying it, then it's time to holler for help or to get the hell out of dodge. I'd stay and fite usually, and die most times. If I can get a clean fast disengage, I'll run towards the nearest friendly airfield knowing that Spec is coming up there and grabbing alt as fast as possible. Then we get back into the drag and bag unless we're way too deep in the enemy territory to do that. If I'm in the spit, I usually feel I have a better than even chance to kill one guy and avoid the other guy long enuf to get on him, and I usually die thinking that <g>. Spec, what do you do for a disengage?

From Awguest: Well, in the situation that you just outlined, if I have a bit of separation, and you buy the farm, and my opponent is dead, I get blood lust in my eye and seek out revenge. If I see company coming and I'm soon to be outnumbered, but feel that I can safely disengage, I drop the nose, WEP and head to the nearest field. I've tried all kinds of disengagements with the enemy in my rear view and I've got to be honest, if he's anywhere near co-E and he's 1200 yds back, I'm hurtin', especially if he's a pretty good pilot. You still don't give up in this situation. First and foremost is to head toward friends and communicate your situation. Scream like a scalded sheep if thats what it takes to get someone over to help you. There is NO dishonor in calling for help. I help folks even if my ammo load is down and fuel is low, not cuz I'm a nice guy, but because I luv the adrenaline rush, and don't ever look at my score, and there is nothing more satisfying than bailing someone else out....

From Awguest: so back to the disengagement; descending spirals if you got the alt, keeping the G meter at 5.5 as I go down, not daring to let the stick twitch because of imminent blackout works if the other guy has mentally already put you on his kill list. Most folks will blackout trying to follow that. The smart ones will throttle back and watch and let you make a revolution or two and let you bleed off all that alt. Doing an immelman or loop is suicide if an enemy is 1500yds back or less and he knows even a little about gunnery. Split S might buy you a few seconds but a good pilot will kill you. What works best for me, and I hesitate to tell you <g>, is to start a hard climb as though I'm going to do an immelman or loop, then pure vertical roll 180 and actually do a high G, high speed split S. If the opponent was following me up and leading me, hopefully spraying lead in front of where I was, when I pull into the split S, he is still going up and I drop out of sight under his nose. I'm sure that he says "wtf?" rolls out of his immelman and, if I did it right, I'm 2200yds away. Otherwise, if a bunch of baddies are on me and I know that I can't run and help is not gonna be forthcoming, I take 'em to the deck and auger as many as I can. By using the envelop of the spit, I know exactly how many feet I need to do a split S with and without flaps and at most speeds. Most guys dont' <g>. but in the end, I try to link back up with SB as soon as I can and we plan for the next sortie.

From Shadownyc: ! have u used spiral climbs to get away? (in spit)

From Awguest: ok Shad, The only time that I use spiral climbs is if I have been watching the enemy and I've seen him come off a high G turn and I know that he is in a low E-state. Usually, I want his alt to be 1200-1500 yds away when I try this. You get much lower distance than this, at least on Genie, you cannot reliably or safely take the chance by wagging your tail in his face. It also depends on the plane type that is trying to follow me in the spiral climb. If it's another spit or 109, it might not be a good tactical choice. The key here is to keep the enemy in view off of one of your wings. That way you are reasonably assured that you are not gonna get a delay caused ping because he was really more on your six than your views showed. When it really gets interesting is when you are climbing like this, full flaps and wep at 75kts, and you are holding him at a set icon distance. It is then a matter of who stalls first, and he who does dies.

From Bohica: the spiral climb can be used in any plane. I use it in the FW againest a lower Spit, drawing him up and getting him slow, then diving on him when he is about to stall and can't turn

From Shadownyc: When a buddie dies and I'm alone with 3 nme, I'm an advocate of pointing the nose straight down and doing some gentle spirals on the way down to throw off the nme gunnery and pull out at the last second (usually blacking out but getting away)...comments?

From Bohica: if it works use it, but if it's against me and you're in a Spit and I'm in the FW, I'm gonna follow you down and kill you when you black out. Be aware of the plane you're in and the plane types you're fighting. If you're in a like aircraft this will work just fine

From Shadownyc: FW has the high speed pullout of spit?

From Bohica: FW will be slower going down because it bleeds E worse than the spit and I'll turn inside of you

From Awguest: yes to Shadow also, I have seen SB diving after enemies at over 400kts so if FW has a little alt he is very fast.

From Merchant: what are some good ways to judge the E state of an nme besides alt?

From Awguest: besides estimating potential E by way of observing enema at higher alt. First, icon distance or radar distance. You can tell whether he is coming at you fast by watching how fast the distance counts down. This won't take you long to figure out. Next time you are dueling someone, or are doing a head on merge, watch how fast the distance ticks off and remember that that prolly is near 5-600kts closing speed. The other thing to remember please is that some of us, me in particular, love to give the appearance of being low and slow in hopes that you wont pay much attention to icon distance countdown. In many opening moves that I like to use, when the enemy gets in icon distance, I will drop my nose and hit wep and I hope to get him about 1500ft higher than me. At 1800yds distance, I get him in the front-up view and begin to pull up to him. If he stays level or starts his immelman thinking that I'm low and at a low E state, I crawl up his backside and kill him. If he realizes his mistake and tries to do some wild maneuvers, I'm doing 350kts as I go vertical and if I need to, I can either chop throttle and match him or do 2 or even three immelmans and hope that he tries to follow. As a rule, if you haven't seen the enmy just exit a turning fight, don't assume that he is slow. Watch the icon distance countdown.

From Bummer: Could you go over the opening you use when you separate and come in on the lone or pair or enemies from diff angles, esp. how far apart do you go before turning back in, do both go out, etc.

From Bohica: we seperate about 1500-2000 yds, go in parallel, look to see what the enema does. Assuming a pair we're fighting, we may blow thru and try to get them to do a hard reverse or if they both turn towards one of us, the chasee will begin a low g zoom and the free person will turn onto the two enemas tails and try to get one fast easy kill and, when the other guy realizes his mistake, the chasee becomes the chaser and Spec and I trade places for baiting the guy into leveling out so we can kill him. If the enema separates and attacks us one on one, we try to keep the one on one going until one of the enema is dead and then, after checking out the situation, radar, counters, etc, kill the other guy quickly. Basically, we go in fast and hard and modify our strategy to what ever the enema reacts to.

From Awguest: we don't want you to get the idea that when we are acting as bait we are really wagging our butts at the enemy and giving him a clean shot. That is not the case. The thing that we try to do is always maneuver aggressively and never on the same plane with each other. If we are both doing an immelman on the merge, we will also throw some bank into it so that it looks more like a high yo yo. Straight immelmans are too predictable and will eventually get you killed. If we are caught close to one another, I watch SB go up and if he is on my left, I figure that he will do a high left yo yo. That is my key to do a high right yo yo so that we are kind of making a heart shape in the air, each of us going out in opposite directions and as we come down heading to the base of the heart. It forces the enemy to track two distinct threats and, if an enemy has followed or tried to follow one of us, the other can hopefully move in.

From Bummer: "aggressive manuevers"...does that mean: always offensive, toward the enemy or does it mean "violent turns" etc?

From Bohica: if I see Spec off my right wing and I have a Spit on my butt, I'll make a hard pitch out to the left. Hopefully the enema will follow, giving Spec a full on tail shot on the enema.

From Awguest: we are always flying offensively. We never fly just defense. We do perform lots of defensive maneuvers, but our goal, even when we are dragging, is to maneuver so that we can get in a position to get the kill if the bag is missed on the first run....

From Awguest: an example...you know how stall fights usually end up in lots of high yo-yos until E gets low for both parties then gradually degrades into a turn fight with low yo-yos. We'll take the enemy on a ride like that, but we never make our break on the yo yo in the same direction more than twice. Frequently, we reverse direction each time. You'd be amazed at the number of kills that we get because we follow an enemy who always breaks left. After the third time that he does this, I put my nose where I know where he'll be and he dies. If he is good and varies his break on the yo yo, we are slow and SB can move in for the kill cuz the guy is out of speed and out of options.

From Bummer: I asked because when I get aggressive, I usually forget and 1) put the nose too high or 2) turn too hard and scrub speed == early death

From Awguest: true . I've done that many times. If you and an enemy are alone, no problem getting real agressive and even getting slow, assuming he is too. But when you got his wingman on you, you have to keep your E up even if it means that you don't get a good shot. Speed is life; if you don't have it, one of them will <g>

From Awguest: here is one set up that we've used on a lone pilot. SB is going head on toward an enemy. As we got into icon range, and even a bit before, he heads straight toward the target. I peel off at about 45^ to the right when the enemy is about 2k icon from me, I begin to hook toward where I think he'll be. When he and SB merge, if he tries to blow through and I'm keeping my E up here (these are high speed low G turns) I either get a rear quarter shot on him or, if he goes up into an immelman, I follow up with him, make a pass, angle shot, and extend 1k or so. By this time SB is in it real good and I watch or make quick passes.

From Bohica: don't turn into your wingman if you're within 1k of him. He can't help you any and prolly won't be able to get a shot at the guy tailing you. Instead, go 90^ to him and give him time to set up a shot and, if you can, present your tail to him knowing the guy following you will do the same thing if you're both locked up tight.

From Awguest: the opening in wing tactics is crucial. The first shot often dictates who will win. I would recommend practicing lead turns on the training page having a buddy fly straight and level toward you at high speed and trying the lead turn on the same plane and the same alt at first. Repeat it until you are able to judge the right distance to get on him, then try vertical lead turns same set up....he flys toward you, you are below him learn the timing so that you come right under his belly nose high. Then have him try immelmans and do the same this will help you immensely.

From Bohica: and again, dogfite the guy you're gonna wing with. It let's you and him (or her) know how each other fights and you'll both benefit from the furballs <g>

From Shadownyc: Any suggestions on how to find a wingy that would be a good match for you? Guys with same fiting style?

From Bohica: yeah, the same styles help a lot. If you happen to be real aggressive and your wingie is timid, he's gonna get you killed and PO'ed that's why I try to find someone that fighting style compliments mine.

From Bummer: Do you ever fly team fights when doing something defensive like defending your airfield when it's being vulched, or captured or is that too much of a melee to team up in?

From Awguest: well, as you can imagine, no time to set up, so we call out what target we are heading for and the other guy supports. If we're trying to avoid a field capture, one of us might b-line for the 47 and the other the escort or at least try to tie up the escort so the other guys can reach the C47 or at least the chutes. Too many folks ignore the chutes.

From Bohica: or I mite drive an FP and Spec will gun and kill the 47 or chutes that way

From Awguest: final advice from me and I'll shut up <G>...when you start this, try staying in or near your own country so that you have benefit of help and radar. Don't attack 2v2 or 2 v more...start by working on one guy. Get your confidence up and build from there. Don't get discouraged. It may take a while, but when it clicks, it is great!

From Bohica: don't get down on your wingie. If he isn't performing up to what you think he should, it won't help. Help him get better and it will make you a better pilot also